At the recent DICE Summit in Las Vegas, Nevada, Naughty Dog's Neil Druckmann and Sony Santa Monica's Cory Barlog engaged in a candid conversation about a deeply personal topic: doubt. For about an hour, the two industry leaders shared insights on their own self-doubts as creators, how they determine if an idea feels "right," and tackled pre-submitted audience questions, including one on character development across multiple games.

Surprisingly, Druckmann, known for his work on several sequels, revealed he doesn't think about multiple games while developing. He explained, "That's a very easy question for me to answer, because I never think about multiple games, because the game in front of us is so all-consuming. I think you're jinxing yourself if you're starting to think about the sequel when you're working on the first game." Druckmann shared that during the development of The Last of Us 2, while occasional sequel ideas might surface, his focus remains on the current project. He adopts a mindset of, "what if I never get to do another one?" ensuring he uses all his best ideas in the present work.

Ten-year Payoffs

Druckmann elaborated that this approach applies to all his projects, except perhaps the The Last of Us TV show, where multiple seasons are already planned. When it comes to sequels, instead of pre-planning, Druckmann reflects on past work to identify unresolved elements and potential character arcs. He humorously noted, "And if I feel like the answer is, they can't go anywhere, then I go, 'I think we'll just kill them off.'" This approach, he explained, led to unexpected successes like the train sequence in Uncharted 2, which was unplanned during the development of Uncharted 1.

In contrast, Barlog described his method as more intricate, akin to a "Charlie Day crazy conspiracy board," where he tries to connect and plan multiple pieces. He finds it magical yet stressful to connect current work with plans from a decade ago, acknowledging the challenges of coordinating with large teams over long periods.

The Reason to Wake Up

The conversation touched on various topics, including their experiences with doubt and their creative processes. Druckmann shared his passion for games, recalling a moment with Pedro Pascal during the The Last of Us TV show production. Pascal jokingly questioned Druckmann's appreciation for art, to which Druckmann responded, "Yeah, do you like art?" Pascal's reply, "It's the reason to wake up in the morning. It's why I live and breathe," resonated deeply with Druckmann, reaffirming why he loves creating games despite the stress and negativity that sometimes accompanies the industry.

Druckmann then posed a question to Barlog about when the drive to create becomes enough, especially in light of their colleague Ted Price's retirement. Barlog's response was poignant: "Is it ever enough? The short answer's, no, it's never enough." He described the relentless drive as a "demon of obsession" that pushes creators to new heights without allowing them to fully appreciate their achievements. Barlog likened this to climbing a mountain, only to see another, taller one in the distance.

Druckmann echoed this sentiment, sharing an anecdote about Naughty Dog's Jason Rubin, who upon leaving the company, believed his departure would create opportunities for others. Druckmann sees his eventual departure in a similar light, gradually stepping back from day-to-day involvement to allow new talent to rise and take on the challenges and opportunities of game development.

Barlog humorously concluded the talk, saying, "Very convincing. I’m going to retire," highlighting the ongoing struggle and passion that drives creators in the gaming industry.